Purposeful Thinking

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Hey, welcome back to Grow Tension. I'm Sarah and I'm with my dad. Doc, how you doing? [00:00:10] Speaker B: I'm doing good. How about you? [00:00:11] Speaker A: I'm doing great. It's a beautiful day. [00:00:13] Speaker B: You should be doing great. You had an awesome day in your family yesterday. [00:00:17] Speaker A: We did. My son Christian, my last baby is getting married in August, and yesterday we celebrated them and we did the shower, and it was easy outside on a patio. Ohio has had the best weather this past week. [00:00:32] Speaker B: Yes, it has. [00:00:32] Speaker A: Have you enjoyed it? [00:00:33] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:00:34] Speaker A: What have you done anything fun? [00:00:36] Speaker B: Sit out on the deck and at my house quite a bit, which for me is a treat. [00:00:42] Speaker A: Yeah. You were over my house yesterday after the shower, on the deck, being with the fam. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Berg and I had lunch together. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Where'd you guys go? [00:00:51] Speaker B: Tokyo. [00:00:53] Speaker A: Hey. I think the other half of my crew went to Shinto's later that night. Okay. So we do this podcast because it is our desire to grow and learn, but to bring people with us along the way. You have been leading dad for this church for 43 years. How many people do you think you have discipled personally along the way? [00:01:21] Speaker B: I would not be able to count that number. Ah. And when you disciple people, some of them stick and they become a healthy part, and then some of them just fade away. [00:01:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Sounds like life. Hence, why we need to talk about this topic today. I was. There's that saying that there's something like 30 to 60,000 thoughts that you have in your head a day and how often we can play the tape of life, or we can be thinking and we can be so reactionary in our relationships and so reactionary in our leadership and so reactionary just in life. [00:02:05] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:06] Speaker A: And you had mentioned to me that you wanted to talk about how can we be more purposeful? How can we have more a more purposeful, thinking life that helps us achieve and live a better life. Tell me a little bit about when you developed a thinking process or can you even consciously remember? [00:02:30] Speaker B: Well, I'm sure it was. I'm sure I read a book sometimes. [00:02:34] Speaker A: Well, you were a rambunctious kid. [00:02:37] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:37] Speaker A: Tell us a little bit about your childhood, like being a boy. [00:02:43] Speaker B: Well, it didn't go so well with me till I graduated from high school. [00:02:47] Speaker A: Right. You weren't. You said you missed more school than you went to. [00:02:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I spent more time in the principal's office than the principal. [00:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah. He still, to this day, bribes all the grandchildren if they go to the principal's office. He'll make them 30 bucks. [00:03:04] Speaker B: 50. [00:03:05] Speaker A: 50. You've upped it. [00:03:07] Speaker B: 50 bucks. [00:03:08] Speaker A: Good for you. Preacher, teacher of Jesus. [00:03:14] Speaker B: I think it's good for everyone to test themselves. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Limits were made for other people. Okay, so you, you had. What were you into? What were you doing? Why weren't you in school? Just working, horsing around. Like, what was your. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I mean, back in the day, if you pass test, you passed. [00:03:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:43] Speaker B: And I, I was a good book reader, so I would read the books and I could pass the test. Yeah. And [00:03:55] Speaker A: move on. And back in the day, there wasn't a rule of how many days you could and could not miss. [00:04:01] Speaker B: They had rules, but they weren't as strict then, you know. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Now they threaten your calling child services. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So back in the day, if you skipped school too much, you got suspended. [00:04:13] Speaker A: You're like, perfect. [00:04:15] Speaker B: I got perfect. [00:04:16] Speaker A: It's all working out just the way I wanted it to. Yeah. Okay. So when did you. So you've always been a thinker then? You've always liked to learn. It was just how you were learning. [00:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah. That environment didn't. I couldn't thrive in that environment. [00:04:34] Speaker A: So what switched from that to college? [00:04:38] Speaker B: Well, I really was interested in the classes I took. I saw how they directly affected. I knew I wanted to be a pastor when I went to school, so I saw everything as useful. [00:04:57] Speaker A: What was your bachelor's in religion. And then what was your master's in [00:05:05] Speaker B: history. [00:05:06] Speaker A: And then your, your THD is theology. Yeah. Okay. So one of the things that you see so often is people struggling in relationships but not really taking the time to analyze, like, why, what's actually happening here. I think so often people can point the finger at the other person. We've. We pastor, so we're counseling a lot of people. What have you found to be true when someone comes to you for advice on relationships? [00:05:46] Speaker B: Well, maybe this is a good place to introduce the whole problem of bias. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Great. [00:05:54] Speaker B: Normally, instead of having a thinking process, people resort to their biases. So one of the most common biases is the confirmation bias. I end up seeing what confirms what I already think. [00:06:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:12] Speaker B: So I think Ford pickups are the best pickups on the road. So every time I see a broken down Chevy, I go, yeah, Fords are better. So I see the broken Chevys, but I don't see the broken Fords. Yeah, that's the confirmation bias. [00:06:30] Speaker A: You buy a Jeep. Right. [00:06:32] Speaker B: So in relationship, the confirmation bias works like, okay, I have a negative thought about somebody, so I see that in them again and again, and it confirms. The problem is I'm not seeing the other evidence, I'm only seeing that one thing I'm looking for. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Yeah. This is bringing a thought. I listened to a clip from something, and so helpful. I listened to a clip somewhere at some time about something. But the. The clip was somebody saying, what would it feel like to be your partner? Like, if you sat across from you, what would it feel like? Because so often I think in this bias, we see what we want to see and we point the finger, but we are never truly taking a good look at our reaction, our response, our. What got us here, you know? [00:07:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:38] Speaker A: And so I think it's a good question to ask yourself is what would it be like to sit across from you as a boss, as a parent, as a partner? It's a good question. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Yes, it is. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Tell me, what would it be like to sit across from you? [00:07:55] Speaker B: You are doing it right now. [00:08:02] Speaker A: In your own mind. [00:08:05] Speaker B: Well, of course. I think it would be a delightful thing. Who doesn't want to. [00:08:09] Speaker A: Sarcasm. You're lucky that's what I say. [00:08:13] Speaker B: Who doesn't want to put up with my sarcasm? [00:08:18] Speaker A: Okay. When you talk about the biases, there's also a halo bias where it's you. I think of it as like the angel. You think you only see the good stuff in your partner or the person you're around. You only see the things you want to see, and so you don't see some of the things that are hurting you or damaging the friendship or whatever it might be. Have you been. Have you had a halo bias? [00:08:45] Speaker B: Not very much. [00:08:47] Speaker A: You've got the cynical bias. [00:08:50] Speaker B: So the. The halo bias is there's nothing wrong with seeing the best in people. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:56] Speaker B: That is. That. That's a virtue. [00:08:57] Speaker A: We should. [00:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah, but the halo bias is I'm making decisions that are not including brokenness in people, and those decisions are going to come back to hurt me. Yeah, Right. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:09:17] Speaker B: So you have a friend, you know, they gossip. They gossip to you. They gossip to everyone. So in the halo bias, you say, ah, they wouldn't do that to me. They're too good to do that to me. [00:09:34] Speaker A: Yeah. As they're talking to Sally on the phone about you. [00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and they're gonna do that about you. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:44] Speaker B: If their gossips, they're gonna gossip about you too. [00:09:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Okay. So I think it's important to know that we all have a lens we look through. We all have biases that we're coming from. We all have starting points. It's maybe how we grew up or how we learned in certain. Certain ways. But we all have ways of thinking, but we want to help create a healthier thought process. And I would say you have helped me considerably in this area. So I would. I would love to share. I know some of your thoughts are going to be from books, but I want to talk just about you personally. What is a starting point for you when you are thinking about how do I need to think about my life or this issue or this problem or this decision that's ahead? What's your starting point? [00:10:38] Speaker B: I think I have to begin by admitting to myself that the way I will naturally think about this is probably not going to produce the best results. What comes to me naturally is probably not going to produce the best results. So I have to create a process that requires me to think in a way that I just wouldn't normally think. I'm normally going to be in the realm of biases, but a process [00:11:15] Speaker A: where [00:11:15] Speaker B: I force myself to. To think in a more quality and systematic way. I have to start with that thought. If I don't create a good process, I'm probably not going to do a good job of thinking about this. Like writing a research paper. If you have a good process, when you write the paper, you just follow the process. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Follow the outline. [00:11:43] Speaker B: If you don't have a good process, well, then you're all over the place. [00:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah. I even just for every tired mama listening to this and thinking, oh, no, I've got to figure out a process. Like, sometimes it can feel like one more thing. But I think the way we're going to talk about this is it's healthy. And although our thinking style isn't natural, this, I feel like, can become very natural. And most of us probably do it maybe just not in order. Anyways. So you had talked to me about. We're going to be purposeful. But step one is like, let's identify really what the issue is. Like, what is the issue at hand? Is it a hard decision you have to make? Is it your relationship struggling? But what is actually the issue? How do you go about identifying when you're kind of lost in the fog or you're lost in the heaviness and overwhelmed, because everything feels like the issue sometimes? [00:12:42] Speaker B: All right, well, when I was learning to do this, I would take out a legal notebook. I've got them stacked everywhere. And I would say, you better burn [00:12:56] Speaker A: those one day, because, you know, I'm going through them when you do, when you. The second I have access, I'm going to be flipping through those already. [00:13:04] Speaker B: An order that if I die Tomorrow they go in the, in the. Into the abyss. [00:13:09] Speaker A: I would never look. I'd burn them for you, dad. [00:13:12] Speaker B: Ah. So if you start, you can start by simply bulleting. This is what I think the problem is. This is what I think the problem is. Or this is the decision I wanna make. Or this is the dilemma and you just start naming it. And I needed, in the beginning, I needed to write it down. [00:13:38] Speaker A: I still do. I think that is in the biggest problems I'm trying to sol looking for like different avenues. And so when, when my starting point is get a notebook. Like I use this electric notebook now, but often times when it's like my personal things that I'm trying to solve, I will grab a notebook and do the exact same thing. Because somehow when you can see it laid out, you can start moving pieces and things around, which we'll get to in a minute. But, but yeah, I think for so many people it's just digging through like what am I really feeling here? I spent a lot of young time with young 20 somethings just trying to figure out life and hungry for relationships and the hurt of what dating can feel like. And, and so a lot of times they'll be wanting something in this relationship or they're hurt in a way. And I'm always like, what's what? What is truly the desire of your heart here? And I think when you can answer that, truly dating can become a little bit more fun because it's not if it's the wrong person, you know what you truly want. And so get rid of the loser so you can find the winner. [00:14:56] Speaker B: You know, first question, what do I want and why do I want it? Yeah, it's the first question in everything. [00:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so once we start to write it down, identify it, kind of clear out the fog of like, yeah, things are overwhelming, there's big problems, but at the heart of this, what is the issue? Are you, are you afraid to confront a problem? Are you, what are the fears wrapped around it? Kind of. I think that stops a lot of people is the fear of it. So I think sometimes just identifying it can be a clarity that you need. What would come next? If we're, we're trying to have purposeful [00:15:34] Speaker B: thinking, well, then I got to start doing some homework. Yeah, I can start listing what I know, so I've got a statement of the issue. Then I can start saying I can address this issue because I already know this. All right. And then that shows me what my gaps, what don't I know? And I got to do some Homework. I got to maybe read a book. I have to maybe listen to podcasts. [00:16:06] Speaker A: To a podcast, I hear there's a good one. A father, daughter one. [00:16:09] Speaker B: Exactly. So I start accumulating new information. I start observing. I start paying closer attention. When I went to counseling some years ago, I learned if I had a bad conversation as quickly as I could to sit down and replay the bad conversation in my head or even write it out and then say, when I said this, I escalated this. And instead of saying this, I should have said this. Okay. When I learned that it's common sense, but I had to be told. [00:17:00] Speaker A: Well, I think that so much of honestly learning. I say this all the time. You only know what you know. That's it. You only know what you know. And so sometimes we'll be having conversations and someone will be like, I know, I know. But sometimes someone can say it in a way that you can hear. Yeah, what's. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear. You used to say that to me. And so I think sometimes listening to a podcast, I'm excited. John Lennox, have you spent much time? [00:17:32] Speaker B: I've watched some of his. [00:17:33] Speaker A: Yeah, he just was on Diary of a CEO. Lex, was it Diary of a CEO? I'm excited to hear this conversation because he talks about God in such a compelling way. And I saw a clip from the interviewer. He said, the most compelling argument for me is not what's in your book. It's not even what you're saying. He's like, it's sitting across from you and experiencing, like, this peace that you have. It's experiencing your personality. And so I can't wait. So I think for some people, learning through listening to podcasts is so easy. Go on a walk, listen to a podcast, working out, listen to a podcast. So I think trying to find podcasts that can help you grow in different arenas is awesome. I have podcasts for sermons. I have podcasts for leadership. I have podcasts for fun. Sometimes you just need to turn the brain off, you know? But I think as far as doing your homework, I think it can be very enjoyable. Books are great resources, but if you're not a reader, listen to them. You know, I think doing your homework doesn't have to be doing your homework. Like, I do think it can be really enjoyable. I love learning new ideas. I love hearing something fresh that I haven't thought about it in that way. It's one of my favorite things. [00:18:55] Speaker B: I like it, too. [00:18:56] Speaker A: You do that really well in your sermons. You help me think about things. In a way that I've not thought about them before. And that's one of my favorite things preachers can do. [00:19:06] Speaker B: Good. [00:19:06] Speaker A: I think it's awesome. Okay. So once you have kind of identified the issue, you start learning about it and trying to grow in that area. What next? [00:19:18] Speaker B: Now I have to do something with these ideas. These ideas that I already knew and these new ideas that I learned. I have to do something with it. [00:19:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:28] Speaker B: So what I start doing is I start saying, what idea fits with my issue? Because I'm gonna learn stuff that doesn't fit the issue at the time. Yeah, I mean, you can. I've read Spurgeon sermons, hoping to find a good idea about something that I was gonna preach on. And I read the whole sermon. It was good. I had good ideas, but nothing fit. [00:19:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:57] Speaker B: So I can do my homework, and some stuff will fit and some won't. So it's like analysis. I'm analyzing what fits and I start connecting the information to what fits with my issue. [00:20:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:16] Speaker B: I use the example of Minna from Mars. What I was saying wasn't working. That was the issue. [00:20:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:26] Speaker B: We weren't communicating. Some of what he taught me fit our communication problem. Some of what he taught me didn't fit our communication problem. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:39] Speaker B: So in the second phase of thinking, I started connecting what he said that fit with our. [00:20:49] Speaker A: We know exactly what you're saying. [00:20:51] Speaker B: Thank you. You've heard me say, you have to go by what I'm thinking, not what I'm saying. [00:20:56] Speaker A: Whatever comes out of my mouth, who knows what it's going to be? So you're picking the idea. You're trying to say, okay, I've learned some things, and you and I believe big time, if you only have one option, you're in a bad place. It should not be option A or option B. It should not be option A alone. We should have option A, B, C, D. Because then you can kind of tell, okay, I have done my homework. I've had some thinking about this. There are options. Because when you only have one option, you're gonna get stuck pretty fast. [00:21:32] Speaker B: If you only have one option, you don't have any options. [00:21:36] Speaker A: That's a great point. [00:21:37] Speaker B: An option. [00:21:40] Speaker A: Tell me more. This is so helpful. Okay, what if you feel like you don't have options? Cause I think that's how most people feel. [00:21:56] Speaker B: Then you haven't done your homework. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Keep learning. [00:21:58] Speaker B: Keep the options will float to the top when you're getting the right information. [00:22:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So one of the things, too, is talking to a trusted Somebody. Right, right. So who is yours? Trusted somebody? [00:22:16] Speaker B: Well, it all depends on the issue I'm dealing with. So you come to the leadership meetings and we, we talk about things and then I try to be on high alert to see and hear what's being said. [00:22:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:33] Speaker B: I try to get a feel for what isn't being said. Other issues, it's the elders I meet with once a month. [00:22:41] Speaker A: I love that you just said what's not being said. So tell me a little bit more about that. [00:22:48] Speaker B: Okay. If I'm thinking through an issue and I've got. I'm starting to make connections of ideas and the problem or the issue, and then I'm talking with other people about it, Is anyone else seeing these connections or are they talking about these connections or are those connections not on anybody else's radar? And if they aren't, why talk to me? [00:23:19] Speaker A: Put that in like relationship scenario. [00:23:24] Speaker B: Okay. [00:23:25] Speaker A: Because sometimes I think we can do this in an unhealthy way. So I would love how to do it in a healthy way. [00:23:31] Speaker B: Okay. Let's just say a volunteer has a bad day and causes an issue and it comes up in our leadership team. We got to do something about this. All right. Commonly what will happen is we will discuss immediate quick fixes. All right. Somebody has to talk to this volunteer. We may need to move them to a different ministry. All right, Those are immediate quick fixes, but perhaps there should be in the conversation. Also, did this volunteer get the right training to begin with? Is this volunteer being, Is this volunteer being encouraged and inspired? Is this, Are we taking those little teaching moments to help this volunteer? Maybe with a character flaw where we're making a little investment in them. So in really good solutions, they don't just fix a one time problem, they start addressing the systemic problem. [00:25:03] Speaker A: And we could probably have a whole podcast on that one. [00:25:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:06] Speaker A: Because that is, that's a very interesting topic. I feel like when we start to address things within us, like if I'm just trying to problem solve, maybe my way of thinking or something like that, it's. It's harder when you can. Stuff can start to become enlightened and you can start to understand a little bit better, but it is harder to figure out, like, okay, what am I not thinking? What am I not saying? What are, what are some of the realities? That is a harder thing to come by. So I think talking to someone, being able to hear the other voices, I do think that's. You had mentioned sometimes you have an idea in your head and it sounds great and then you say it out loud. [00:25:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that is true. Things sound differently when we say them than when we think. [00:26:00] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [00:26:01] Speaker B: If you're paying attention. [00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:04] Speaker B: That's why I read the Bible out loud. The Bible sounds different when you read it out loud than when you read it in your head. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:13] Speaker B: And the proverbs say in the multitude of counselors, there is wisdom. Because I'm just like everybody else in the group. There are things that I'm not picking up on. And if somebody else is picking up on it and they bring it into the conversation, we have a more a 360 degree view. And not just. [00:26:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Even in my relationship with Jake, we'll often be feeling so similar and we haven't talked about it and so we're feeling, like, lonely for each other, but neither of us knows and it's coming across like, grouchy, you know, and just the. Just the act of let's talk it out. Like, how are you feeling? Identifying it, being able to grow in it, and just being able to talk to each other. I think it's such a huge. That communication piece is very important. [00:27:11] Speaker B: Huge. [00:27:12] Speaker A: Okay. You and I also are a fan of let's try it. So we've identified the problem, we've started to look at, we've done our homework. Right. [00:27:23] Speaker B: We've looked at, we've plugged in the right ideas, we've had good discussions and we've come up with options and now we have to implement. Because doing is also part of the thinking problem process. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:41] Speaker B: If I just sit in my office and think, [00:27:45] Speaker A: what would you say to the person that knows the right thing to do, has studied, done their homework, learned about it, talked to people about it, but they still won't do it. What would you say to that person? [00:27:58] Speaker B: I would say you get out your calendar right now and you put this in your calendar and you make it the number one priority for the day. You put it in your calendar? [00:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:12] Speaker B: And if you still. If you don't do it, then you do the same thing next week and you tell a friend, call me on this day to see if I did what I said I would do. [00:28:21] Speaker A: An accountability partner. That's good. That's good. Okay. So we. I'm a big fan of let's try it. I say it to the staff all the time. I'll have meetings with them and they'll bring up ideas. And I think a lot of people's first response is no. And especially when you're training someone, you want to kind of get them to do the things like how you do it. But I am a. I love saying, let's try it. I think it gives people room to breathe and room to be and exist. And I think it gives a fullness to the team, especially of not everything is just the way you want it. There is. God brought these people together for a reason, specifically for your team or if you're in the workplace. But I like the idea of let's try it. Talk to me about it. [00:29:07] Speaker B: Well, we. We believe that we are. We learn by doing. Part of the thinking process is you learn more by doing it. We use the phrase in our leadership team, we learn our way forward. So we try it. Some of it works out fine. Some of it doesn't. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Easier to move a moving car. That's not the same. Steer a moving car. Easier to steer a moving car. I've offered nothing for this podcast. [00:29:52] Speaker B: You're doing just fine. [00:29:54] Speaker A: Thank God you showed up today. Okay, talk to me about what then. You try it now. What? [00:30:02] Speaker B: Okay. And then this is really important. We do it all the time. After action reviews. [00:30:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:12] Speaker B: We say we think this is our best option. We think it'll produce these results. We try it, and then we sit down and say, did it work? What worked? What didn't work? What do we want to change? What did we learn that we didn't understand before we tried it? It's continuing the process of thinking because [00:30:42] Speaker A: most people are done once they try it. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:44] Speaker A: You're done. So even when you get to that step, it's like, okay, it worked or it didn't work done. And I think that is the problem for so many of us is. And then we'll kind of repeat the cycle or we'll kind of get in these ruts. But I think with this kind of after action thought, like this after action review, we call it aar, probably from a book, but doing it in your personal life, too. I always say, like, I want to love Jacob, how he feels loved. And so I have to identify, how does he feel loved. How did that conversation go? Where? Was I not direct or was I too harsh or. And I think that's one of the things that I've learned is I've got to be thoughtful about after those conversations happen, what worked really well and what didn't, and what can I learn and how to love him better? [00:31:38] Speaker B: I pray every morning, dear God, help me to love Shay the way you want her to be loved. [00:31:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I think about the kids, too, and I think about conversations I had that didn't go well. And you know, as a parent, you're just trying everything you can because you just love these humans and you want to help raise them to be awesome men and women for God and for the world. And. Okay, dad, when you have your healthiest relationships and your most purposeful thinking. What have you noticed the difference? [00:32:13] Speaker B: Things work better, you have more success. You build a better team. People enjoy working with you more. [00:32:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:23] Speaker B: You build trust. People feel like the person who is leading is competent. [00:32:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:30] Speaker B: And not winging it. [00:32:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:33] Speaker B: Nobody wants to be led by somebody who's flipping a coin. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Clarity is key. All right, well, thank you so much for this conversation. We hope it's helpful. Let's hit it one more time, dad. You start with identifying the problem. [00:32:47] Speaker B: Then you learn. You do your homework. When you do your homework, then you start connecting the ideas that are right with the issues that you have and you start weeding out the distractions. When you make these connections, then you're ready to start saying, ah, these are my options. [00:33:16] Speaker A: I've got options. [00:33:19] Speaker B: These are my three options. And this one looks like the best. And then I implement. I try it. I pay attention. I observe. I collect data while I'm trying it. Then we have an after action review. What worked, what didn't work. And based on that, we have new information, we plug it in, and the process has a way of continuing itself. [00:33:48] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a healthier process we forgot to mention. And you talk to someone in that. Okay, well, thank you so much for your time. I love you. I value you. If you got anything out of this, good for you. Because I was a rough interviewer. [00:34:04] Speaker B: You are too hard on yourself. Let the peace of Christ rule in your heart. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Just relax, Sarah. I love you, dad. You're a treasure. I like laughing. I like having a little fun. [00:34:18] Speaker B: I enjoy your company. [00:34:19] Speaker A: We hope this was helpful. We hope you have a great day. Share send it to someone and we'll see you next time.