Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hey, welcome back to grow tential. I am Sarah, and I'm with one of my favorite human beings, my dad. Doc. How you doing?
[00:00:12] Speaker B: I'm doing great, Sari. How are you today?
[00:00:14] Speaker A: I'm pretty good. Thanks so much for doing this. We're not in our usual setting. We're at one of our favorite places.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: We love this view, the church.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: We've got a beautiful view. We'll try to scan the camera around and add it in if you're watching, but most people are listening.
How's your week?
[00:00:34] Speaker B: My week was pretty good.
[00:00:36] Speaker A: I saw you got a new truck.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Yes, I did.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Fun, fun, fun. What kind of truck?
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Ford F150.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Oh, your favorite.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: God's truck.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: I love you. I'll have to go check it out.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: I'm taking Shay to the Finger Lakes next week for her birthday.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. When do you guys leave?
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Friday.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Friday. That's so exciting. So is J Man gonna.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: He's gonna meet us there.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: My brother's 34 and I still call him J Man.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's because that's his name.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Yeah, 32.
No, Lex, 33. I don't know. I'm not good with numbers either.
Well, hey, I had an experience this week that I wanted to share with you because your sermon nailed it for my hubby and I.
And it was one of those weeks if you're married, I feel like it's gonna be a relatable story. It was just one of those weeks where actually it was probably the past two where we just were missing each other. So we're in this new season of life where we're pretty much empty nesters Monday through Friday, and then the kids will kind of come home on the weekends. And so we're finding all this time where the kids normally would have been and they're not there. So I think I'm processing it as a mama because my most favorite thing in life is being a mom, hands down. And now look, being a mom just looks so different, as you well know.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: I loved being a dad.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's kind of the worst season of life so far.
I need counseling, but. So the kids are gone. I'm going through, like, this lonely season. And I think I have these expectations for Jake that, you know, he's got to fill all the holes that are happening in my heart because it only makes sense. You know what I'm saying?
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: It's the rational girl brain.
And we've been doing this thing. We heard something awesome on marriage about this idea of, like, what really, love looks like is serving one another. And so I've been going extra hard on this aspect. And also, his love language is acts of service. So.
But what I sub like, I. In my subconscious, I think I started doing this idea of keeping score where I'm doing all these acts of service, but on top of it, I'm lonely. So there's all these emotions swirling around in my head. And when Jake doesn't respond in the way that I have set my expectations, you know, what's been going on in my dream fantasy mind of just this loving relationship and so much fun and like high schoolers again.
And so we've been struggling a little bit because we've both been so busy in our own world and our own emotions. And so I found that my expectations have been pretty high and I have been pretty disappointed.
And we drove into church on Sunday, and we are. We hold hands, we listen to worship. We always pray before we get to church.
And I found myself saying, I'm not gonna pray.
He has to initiate this one.
I like to share my total dysfunction. Cheers to the dysfunctional.
But I.
I found just that edginess of, you know, when you haven't gotten your way and you feel it, is this relating to you at all? Do you. Do you remember these emotions from your.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: Of course I do.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Ah.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: I said in the sermon Sunday, when I was young and foolish, I kept track.
And then I would say, I'm not doing anything else till Sharon catches up.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that was my.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: I learned the hard way that there is no joy in that. There is no joy in that.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: No.
So we, like, got right to where Mark's road dead ends into 82, and that's where our church is. So it's like, there's two minutes before you get into church. So I grabbed his hand, and I was like, hey, would you pray for us instead of letting it go without.
And then we sat in your service, and your service was in Colossians about husbands and wives and children. And you just did a wonderful job. But today I thought it would be really healthy to talk about some ideas of defining our emotions. We're in this part two of the series that we're doing, and when you can clearly define your emotion, you're better able to handle and overcome what's going on in your mind. And so when we think about when things don't go as planned or we have high expectations that aren't being met, I'd love to get some of your insight on this. Today we're using Brene Brown's book, Atlas of the Heart.
You have enjoyed reading this book?
[00:05:47] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
Very helpful for me.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah. She's very tangible, very practical.
So we're going to be using her chapter on when things don't go as planned. So talk to me about what you have learned. You said as you were a younger man, you used to think that.
How did you used to handle that disappointment of, like, not your expectations not being met? So you do, like the silent treatment or what? What would your.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I would just.
I would just not initiate what I should initiate.
And it was.
It was a selfish and ugly way of trying to manipulate Shay into doing what I wanted.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:36] Speaker B: And it was unhealthy. It was unchristian, and it didn't make my life happy.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: So I.
I changed my whole model.
Now Sharon is. I mean, her spiritual gift is service. Do you know what I mean?
[00:07:03] Speaker A: So the loveliest, the most beautiful, the.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Kindest, she serves and just serves prayer warrior.
But in my head, I say to myself, I'm gonna out serve her.
I'm gonna out serve her.
If we're keeping score, I want to be so far ahead, she can never catch up.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: Okay, how did you get there? How did you get from my crazy to a healthier level of how you show up in.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: It must have been from. It must have been from reading books.
Back in the day, Sharon and I read a marriage book every single year, probably for 20 years.
Every year we would go to Barnes and Nobles or boarders or whatever, and we would go to the marriage section. We would pick out a book and we would read it together, and then we would discuss it chapter by chapter.
So I had to learn that in one of the books we read together.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
And now it's one thing when disappointment is in your relationships, because, like, on the way home from church, Jacob and I held hands and we. I was able to share with him, you know, what my expectations had been.
Because that was one of the practices you had asked every woman and every man of like, okay, what are your expectations? Are they healthy? And where did they come from? And. And so I think some of the expectations were healthy and Right. But I think I have really high expectations. I think it's been hard for my kids. Cause I have high expectations, but I don't know how to change it. So I'd love some good advice.
How do you set healthy expectations?
And not just in relationships, in home, but in work, in friendships? Like, how do you set a healthy expectation?
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Well, I think it's like everything else in my Christian life. I want Christ to have influence in my expectations.
We. Our culture imposes unrealistic expectations on us.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: For example, I said Sunday, I said to the men in the church, these magazines that show women in an artificial way, those expectations are. They're unrealistic, they're artificial.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: And it's not just the magazines now. It's every ad, every.
Yeah. And they're trying to be better, I feel like. But pornography runs rampant.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: So all of that is not who women really are. It's an artificial thing.
So if you get to thinking, I can expect my wife to be like, I saw this woman. Okay?
That's first of all, unrealistic.
Second of all, it is a plant of evil.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: And it can only produce misery. All right?
So I have to push back against the expectations that culture creates, and I have to have an open heart for the Holy Spirit to start creating proper expectations in me. All right?
So I wanna replace an image from culture that is unrealistic. I wanna replace it with a divinely influenced image.
So what I say to myself is, I want to love Shay the way God wants her to be loved. Right?
So I pray every single day in the morning, dear Father, help me to love Shay today the way you want her to be loved.
Okay? Do I get it right? Absolutely. Every day. No. But I still want to pre prime myself in the morning.
I don't pray this at the end of the day. I want to pray it every morning. I want to pre prime myself. I want to love Shay today the way you want her to be loved. All right?
Now, that creates different expectations than cultural expectations.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I've been studying the will of God and we've talked quite a bit about it on our own time. But one of the things in First Thessalonians, it says, is for you to be holy. And can you define holy for us?
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Yes.
I'm going to do a sermon series on the moral attributes of God.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Are you going to do the holiness?
[00:12:01] Speaker B: And holiness is one of them.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: Okay, shoot. Because I'm going to do the holiness on Sunday. It's going to be an aspect of it.
I should have spent more time with you. I'd love to know more of what you're. I can't wait to hear that sermon.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: So holiness is perfection.
It's moral perfection.
It is.
It's not just conformity to what is right.
It is delighting in what is right.
It's not forcing myself to be good.
It's my soul finds delight in good.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Well, one of the things you and I were talking about was this idea of when you think about this first Thessalonians passage or some of the other passages, there's this idea of, okay, none of us are holy.
It is the work of the Holy Spirit through. Through us. It's, you know, our relationship to Jesus Christ. He is holy and he alone. And so I think we can get caught up in this expectation of what we do, do, do, do, do. And I don't think that's what the gospel really teaches. I think over and over and over throughout all of scripture, you see that it is the heart.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: And so it is first what's happening in us. Right.
And who we are becoming.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: And so I love this idea of sitting down and saying, okay, when I am disappointed, when things didn't go as planned, I.
I can allow myself to go to ugly places or I can really use this as a moment to draw closer to God and to become more of who he's wanting me to be.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: Right?
[00:13:56] Speaker A: And so it can look like different avenues. So explain to me, when you think of disappointment, what is the healthy alternative?
[00:14:06] Speaker B: So there's nothing unhealthy about disappointment.
It is a. It is a emotion in the human register.
It's human. All right?
So I'm not gonna start by saying this disappointment is some way a moral or character failure.
This disappointment is telling me something about life. All right?
So then I start asking myself, why am I disappointed?
What led to this disappointment?
And then Brene Brown tells us that's where we distinguish disappointment and regret.
Disappointment is usually something I wanted to happen that didn't happen, that was out of my control.
Regret is something that happened that I didn't want to happen and was under my control.
I could have done something different.
So I'm going to separate disappointment and regret.
If it's genuine disappointment, I'm going to explore my expectations.
If it's disappointment and it's a healthy expectation, I'm going to acknowledge this is a part of the adventure of life.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: I like that you labeled it the adventure of life. The optimistic view.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: If it's an unhealthy expectation, the disappointment is going to lead me to change.
I have to change my expectation. It wasn't fair.
Okay, okay. Maybe it isn't disappointment. Maybe it's regret. Maybe I'm having this feeling that this didn't work out right.
And really I could have done some things very, very differently.
Now I'm dealing with a different emotional register.
I'm saying I can learn from this regret that in the future I need to respond to this kind of situation differently.
I need to not procrastinate.
I need to do the right thing first.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: So when you have that sense of regret, then like, okay, it is my fault. I have caused it.
Do you have any good practices that you've used in your life to make it right or to, you know, come out on a healthier end instead of staying stuck in shame or staying stuck in, you know, just bad thinking?
[00:16:49] Speaker B: So the first sign of regret is, what do I have to change?
That's where I want to start with regret. What do I have to change?
I'm feeling this way because I did something that now I know I could have done in a different way, and I wouldn't be feeling this right now if I had.
So I want to start on the learning side.
All right, then there is that.
There is that regret tape.
That something you did 30 years ago. Something I did 30 years ago.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: I'm good at that tape.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: I remember it, and I have to go through.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: Rewind, play, rewind, play.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: So to that, I want to add a good memory, because what happens is our memory rewires itself. It doesn't go back in the way it came out.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: So I want to remember with these cyclical regrets. I want to start attack attaching pleasant memories to them. And I say to myself, yes, that is true, but it's not the whole.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: Truth that's so fascinating. I was in a counseling session once, and we were talking about an event that took place, and there were pictures of it. And every time I saw that picture, it would bring up the bad. And over the years, it, like, so distorted the event because the one bad thing that happened, and I can't even look at some of those pictures. So I love this idea of not letting it become the whole story.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: So good.
So you. Then you. You go back through and you attach more truth to it than you've allowed yourself to believe.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Because, man, the older we get, I can think of this, like, in childhood trauma or a fight with a friend that's gone on for years or divorce with a spouse. Like, we can rewire that so that the full picture becomes all bad.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:54] Speaker A: And you demonize instead of letting some of the real truth come out. It's very good, very helpful.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: If we don't deal with regret and disappointment, they can degenerate into discouragement.
And when we're discouraged, we lose.
We lose motivation and enthusiasm for the future.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah. This one, I feel like the discouragement at my in work, this. I can see it so clearly of if I'm discouraged in an area how quickly I can lose my enthusiasm.
And for me, my passion and enthusiasm is such a driving force.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Yes, it is.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: So I got to keep that high and healthy. So talk to me about.
Okay, We've. We've not treated our disappointment or our regret in ways that are helpful or healthy. And now we've moved on to discouragement often.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: Okay. And so then discouragement is. We're losing that.
That drive. You're losing that motivation.
So. So what are some ways to deal with that in a healthy way?
[00:20:05] Speaker B: All right.
If I deal with disappointment in a healthy way, I don't lose my motivation and my.
And my enthusiasm.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: Yeah. You can almost regain it.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Right. Because you say, I know what to do. Yeah, I want to. I'm ready to try this again.
If I deal with regret in a healthy way, I say, I've learned something. The next time this comes up, I'm a different person.
I'm a better person than I was last time.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: I'll choose a different.
[00:20:38] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: So it has a way of warding off discouragement. And actually, it makes me a little energized about, ah, I'm gonna do this better.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm in the game a million percent. It's funny, because I was.
I had an extended vacation, and I was seeking God and, like, so desperate for just a word from God, you know?
And through that time of just being with God over and over and over again, it was the reality of just, like, his love for me and.
And, like, this call and this passion, this drive in my life for just serving him. And, like, ultimately, I just want to be his girl. And all I do.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: So that's my home. That's my work life. It's everywhere I go. I want to be his.
And it's so.
It's like, from discouragement to health doesn't have to be so hard. No, it doesn't have to be so hard. And sometimes I think we overcomplicate it.
So what would you say to someone who has been stuck in discouragement?
Maybe it's something they can't control and they've been stuck in discouragement. What would be your piece of advice to help them dig their way out?
[00:21:59] Speaker B: So I would start by saying, if I'm stuck, I'm stuck. I gotta have help.
Very rarely do we get ourself unstuck. All by ourself.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: And that's why healthy Christian relationships are so important.
Having people in our lives who are strong where we're weak.
So I'm stuck. I don't want to be here. I don't like being here. If I could get out by myself, I would.
So in healthy Christian relationships, that's where we have the opportunity to say to someone we trust, you know what I'm feeling stuck in this place in my life.
And it strikes me that you have greater strength in this than I do, or you have more insights in this, or I could learn something from you.
And then by the grace of God, God works through that person, and we see something we haven't seen before, or they encourage us in the way we need to be encouraged, or they hold us accountable to something, and with their help, we start making the movement in the right direction.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember. This is probably very much in Chet's world, who it was. But the idea was they were an athlete that did ridiculous things.
And the moral of the story that he was telling was basically the idea that there is more in you than you know.
When you think you've hit your limit, even physically, when you're running or whatever it is, these endurance athletes, you have more in you than you know. And it's often a mind game that you have to battle and, you know, telling yourself, okay, I've got more in me. I'm not quitting. And I think the big thing with emotions and being able to have healthy relationships and healthy work life and is this idea of, I want to grow in all areas of my life, and there's more in me than I am living out.
And so when I've been stuck or when, you know, I think just the idea of labeling disappointment as expectations not being met or regret as the idea of it's, you know, ultimately it is you.
It can help you dig out trusting people that are trustworthy. I think everyone should have a mentor, and I don't think you should ever not have a mentor from you. You said, one day I won't need you anymore. And I was on a walk, like, this week, at some point, I was like, I hope that is never true, that I think I'm to the point where I don't need someone who's gone before me and have better advice. And I hope I never reach that point.
You've never reached that point. You are a lifelong learner. So even if there's not a physical mentor, there are books and there are people that you learn from regularly. So I just. I highly recommend finding yourself a mentor if it's a person you are lucky enough like I am to be able to meet with regularly. And talk to. Or if it's you're opening a book or listening to a good podcast.
Cause I don't think we ever reach a point where we don't need.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: When you stop learning, you stop growing.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: And when you stop growing now, your life goes on hold.
I shared that with you because there's a thing, a book I read called Mastery.
And you start out as an apprentice, and then you become competent.
And then eventually, if you work at it, you become a master.
And when you master it, you actually have to break free from your mentor and to grow into your full self.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'm not doing it, so you stuck with me for life, kid.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: Not a problem on my end.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Do you like that I called you kid?
[00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I like being young.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Hey, I appreciate this. This feels super helpful. And it's a good reminder that.
That good things can happen when we understand our emotions in the right way.
One last piece of advice, because we are who we are from our great and awesome God that you think might be helpful when we look at this idea of disappointment.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: I don't have to do it alone. The Holy Spirit said he'll never leave me or forsake me.
This is not. This is not me lifting myself up by my bootstraps.
This is not me figuring out the labyrinth.
This is me partnering with the Holy Spirit, allowing him to whisper to me and say, this is the way. Walk in it.
And it's about me being. When he does whisper to me, being obedient and saying, I will do that.
[00:27:31] Speaker A: Yeah. You never regret obeying the voice of God? You never regret it?
[00:27:36] Speaker B: No.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: All right, well, thank you so much for joining us. This time on growtential, we ask that if this has been helpful, share it, send it to a friend, a family member, and we can't wait to see you next time. I love you, my dad.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: I love you, girl.
