Love Of God

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Hey, welcome back to Grow Tension. I'm Sarah and I'm with my awesome genius dad. How you doing? [00:00:11] Speaker B: I'm doing just fine with an introduction like that. [00:00:16] Speaker A: I'm excited about today's topic. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Good. [00:00:18] Speaker A: We commonly will have private conversations, just you and I. I commonly call you asking for some of the Greek words in scripture to help me with thinking on sermon. Pre wanted to do a little bit. It's like a behind the scenes because I think so many people at some point in their life struggle with the idea of being loved, accepting love, feeling loved, especially when it comes to God. And these are some of my favorite conversations with you. So thanks for being here, thanks for doing this with me. [00:00:59] Speaker B: I enjoy your company. [00:01:01] Speaker A: I'm gonna start by reading this scripture. I'm studying it now. We're in a three part series in our midweek talking about the idea of claiming your strengths. And we're using this verse as one of the main sources, but it's Ephesians 3 and it starts at verse 14 and we're gonna go down to 19 today. For this reason I bow my knees before the Father from Whom every family in heaven and earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory, he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have the strength to comprehend with all the saints and what is the breadth and the length and height and depth and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. As I read this scripture, something inside of my heart, body and soul so longs for people to know this. This is a prayer that Paul is praying to a church in Ephesus. And this is what he's claiming with God for his people. And it is the longing of my heart. I so badly want people to know how loved they are. When you think about this scripture, what jumps out to you? First, [00:02:45] Speaker B: it is the opposite of what we often hear in church, which is to have God's favor, you have to do this and this and this and this. To have God's favor, you can't do this and this and this. And Paul just avoids all of that. And he said, I want you to know that this, this incredible love of God. Comes from his nature. God doesn't have to try and love me. God doesn't have to say, I'm gonna work harder today on love. And doc. It is innate to his nature and it's so innate to his nature that Paul says. Paul claims the promise. Whatever we ask in prayer that's according to his will, we know he'll give it to us. Paul was absolutely convinced it was the nature of God to love people, and he made it the issue of his prayer. [00:04:10] Speaker A: First, John, he is love. Yeah, he is love. It's the very essence of his character. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:17] Speaker A: I think for so many people, it's easy to transfer how people have treated you in this life. Bad relationships, parental. Just the deep rejection that life can bring. It's easy to have those experiences and then transfer it to God. And your understanding of who he is comes pretty natural for us. And so there is this rejection that happens in life that we are trying to grapple with and the feelings of not being good enough. And it brings up all the insecurities and all the things. But then there's also a reality that we do know our character. And I do know that I'm broken. I do know the anger that's within me. Can I get any amens? [00:05:04] Speaker B: Yes, you can. [00:05:07] Speaker A: And I know the ugliness that's within me. And so we normally try to put our best foot forward for people to love us or like you're saying, do the right things. Most churches teach you, but it's the exact opposite of what God really requires of us. It is a faith that we get to have because of a grace of a mighty God. What would you say to someone who's struggling with rejection and feeling those feelings and putting it on God? [00:05:46] Speaker B: I would begin by saying. I would begin by acknowledging their hurt. Yeah. It's not gonna help to say you shouldn't feel that way because Jesus loves you. Okay. Then the door gets slammed shut, Right? [00:06:05] Speaker A: Yeah. We're not here because it feels good. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm gonna start by saying I am so sorry that you've had to experience this. I'm so sorry that this has wounded you the way it has. But I know the cure for what you're feeling. I know what your heart needs. And what your heart really needs is the inexplicable loving kindness of God. The love of God heals the wounded human soul. The love of God binds up the broken heart. The love of God refreshes the human perspective. [00:06:59] Speaker A: Ah. [00:07:00] Speaker B: The love of God sets us free from the resentment about having been treated poorly in the past. [00:07:12] Speaker A: You know a thing or two about rejection. And so what are some of the self talk? What are some of the things you preach to yourself that have made a difference when it comes to that, [00:07:28] Speaker B: well, I'm like everybody else. I've got healthy thoughts and I've got unhealthy thoughts. So my unhealthy bent is to just blow people off and say they're idiots. Do you know what I mean? [00:07:45] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:07:46] Speaker B: My unhealthy side is those people are idiots, all right. But the spirit of God is at work in me and making me a better man. And I try to say my easiest go to is when I'm really disappointed. My easiest go to is I remember the Sermon on the Mount. I've said this myself a thousand times. Blessed are you when you get treated this way for Christ's sake, that in some way God uses what I'm feeling right now to bless me even richer. So this person thought that they were gonna wound me or whatever, but in fact, the love of Christ is so incredible that he even takes rejection and turns it into an avenue to bless us. [00:08:52] Speaker A: He works all things together. Okay. What would you say to someone who is struggling with, like, mental health issues and they just have a hard time with life, they have a hard time with self love, let alone a God that loves them. What would you say to someone in that boat? [00:09:16] Speaker B: My first. My first piece of advice would be, if you could have fixed this by yourself, you would have. [00:09:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:25] Speaker B: You're miserable. And you're not miserable because you want to be. You don't get up in the morning and choose to be. If you could have made this better, you would have. So instead of living this way, why not find someone who knows things you don't and understands things you don't and let them guide you to a better place in life? [00:09:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:56] Speaker B: I am a firm believer in counseling. I'm a firm believer in life coaching. I'm a firm believer in mentoring. [00:10:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I. I think the word here in the original Greek is agape for love. And that's very common when talking about God. Correct. In scripture, the original Greek and the word itself is this unselfish love or like this self sacrifice for others? It's that kind of depth of love. How do you internalize that for yourself? How do you. Have you ever struggled with understanding God's love for you? [00:10:44] Speaker B: What I've. What I've struggled with is I've actually said in prayers, I know you are the perfect God, but I feel like you made a mistake when you sacrificed Christ for me. It's not worth it. I look at the cross and I say, I'm not worth. Worth what Christ had to endure. Yeah, He. He deserves so much better. Than that. [00:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:24] Speaker B: So I have. I've had. I have from time to time. I have this real sense of the mystery, of the general love of God I get. Because that's who he is. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:42] Speaker B: But when the general love of God becomes as specific as every ugly thing I've ever done or thought Christ paid for on the cross out of pure love for my soul, then I get overwhelmed. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it is so easy for me to see God's love for other people. It's. It comes very natural to me. Like anyone struggling, I, I. It's easy for me to see it, but to think sometimes that the God of the universe would have me on his mind. It's unfathomable. Sometimes it is. And then I get these moments where I see how God orchestrated something, or I saw how he whispered to my spirit and he moved. And. We're in the process of buying this land, and the man we're buying it from, he wasn't even selling it. And he worked hard to get four pieces of property together as one. And I stand on that land with my family, and I think, who am I that God would have had us on his mind to put those four pieces of property together so that my kids could one day build, my husband and I could build. It's so loving and so kind, and it blows me away. [00:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like that often when I come to this church, this campus, [00:13:31] Speaker A: I [00:13:32] Speaker B: pull in the driveway and I look at this beautiful place and I go, what incredible love you've shown to us. I mean, I just look over my life and the love of God has met me time after time after time after time. He's found ways to extend his love to me in miraculous ways and in just subtle, beautiful ways. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:21] Speaker B: When grandkids were smaller and they would touch my face with their little hands. What a beautiful expression of the love of God. The love of God is undeniable if you're looking for it. [00:14:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:41] Speaker B: If you're not looking for it, you'll probably miss it. [00:14:44] Speaker A: And I think that the more we ask to see it or notice it or be aware of it, the more glimpses we get. And I think the beauty of this love is we'll never fully be able to comprehend it. [00:15:02] Speaker B: No. [00:15:03] Speaker A: We'll never fully be able to understand it. I get glimpses in it. By the way, you love me. You had this line growing up. We would come and interrupt something in your office, and you'd say, I'm never too busy for you. And it gave me a picture of the goodness of God in that he is never too busy for me. And there's ways of loneliness that I just. I felt so lonely. And I would just feel the love of God around me in a way that didn't make sense. There was no reasonable explanation except that it was his love surrounding me. And I felt like I grabbed hold onto that. And I would just say, it's you and me. And so my life has been this lifetime of, in my loneliest moments, it's you and me. No matter what any other person is saying or thinking, it's you and me. And there's such a belief wrapped around it. What would you say to someone who is having a hard time acknowledging what we're acknowledging? [00:16:11] Speaker B: Ah, I would try to. I would try to. I often do this. I try to connect people to stories in the gospel. I've used this one many times. Jesus walked all the way from Capernaum all the way to Tyre in Syria. He walked all that way there and all that way back to meet one widow whose child was a wreck. And she appealed to him, have mercy on my daughter. And Jesus wanted to make a teaching moment for his disciples. And so he said, it's not good to take the bread from the children and give it to the little dogs. [00:17:15] Speaker A: It's one of the hardest scriptures. [00:17:17] Speaker B: But I keep going, yes, Ah, he's teaching the. He's gonna give the disciples a lesson in faith. And she goes, yes, Lord, but the little dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the deal from the table. [00:17:30] Speaker A: And. [00:17:30] Speaker B: And Jesus turns and looks at his disciples and says, great is your faith. [00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:37] Speaker B: He's saying to them, maybe this woman has more faith than you do. Okay? But my point is, he loved that woman so much, he walked all that way, spent a half hour with her, totally changed her life, and walked all the way home. And Christ is willing to do that for us, for you. [00:18:01] Speaker A: When you said a minute ago that you think about it as like, I'm not worth it, I think a lot of people can relate to that. And what does that do to your inner being when you think I'm not worth it? And what does it do to your inner being when. When you think about his love that would walk all that way? [00:18:31] Speaker B: Well, when I'm saying I'm not worth it, I'm actually worshiping. I'm looking to God and saying, I have a sense of what you're worth. And that's what worship means, right? A worth ship. What are you worth? I have this overwhelming sense of what you are worth. And I'm acknowledging that you are worthy of so much better. I'm acknowledging that you deserve to be obeyed and to be followed. Actually, it's not self depreciation as much as it is. And acknowledging the worst. Such an incredibly loving being. [00:19:23] Speaker A: What would you say to a mom or dad listening. Who loves their kids the way you love us, and they just have a kiddo who they want so much better for and they're struggling in that arena, and maybe that kid isn't open to God. Who. What would you say to that parent? [00:19:47] Speaker B: I would like. I would. And we've had this in our family. It's not like our family has. Not yet. [00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah. We're not immune. Yeah. [00:19:57] Speaker B: I always want to start with my family. I don't care what you do or don't do. I love you. You do not have to earn my love. You don't have to win my love. I always want to have. My love for you is not based on what you do or don't do. It is an absolute commitment. There was someone I love very dearly going through a very difficult time. And I sat with this person and said, if things get twice as bad as they are right now, I will be here. Ah. So in the family unit, there can. Love is not negotiable. It is an inviable commitment. All right, Now I have to move from that to how I love. And in difficult times, I have to love in two ways. First of all, I have to love in a way that feels like love to that person. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:18] Speaker B: This is love languages. [00:21:20] Speaker A: Yep. [00:21:22] Speaker B: It's my responsibility to love my family the way that feels like love to them. I can't say, you know, I love you, or I can't say, well, this proves I love you. I have to love them in the way that feels like love to them. And that's not always easy. [00:21:45] Speaker A: No. [00:21:45] Speaker B: All right. And then the second love is the one I don't like to talk about because it gets so misinterpreted. There is a. There is a tough love that I love you enough not to leave you where you are. I love you enough to challenge you about this. I love you enough to engage in a painful way as opposed to avoiding. Ah. So, [00:22:34] Speaker A: okay, I. I want to get real honest here. And we don't. Sometimes we don't talk about things because it opens too many doors. But I would like to open it just for a minute. Sometimes it's because I believe in tough love, and I love. That definition is I love you too much to not leave you where you're at. But sometimes it's hard to determine tough love and unhealthy love, especially when it comes to a difference in beliefs, especially if it's a child. Like, I think about sexuality and the LGBTQ community, I think about. I think when there's difference of opinions and belief systems and you have fears and concerns, and so what I. Loving them, how they feel, that makes sense to me. But what would tough love look like in a place where you. There's a belief difference. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Okay. What it wouldn't look like is angry discipline. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:49] Speaker B: That's not tough love. [00:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:51] Speaker B: That's venting frustration. All right, here's. Okay, let's just take the gay issue. [00:23:58] Speaker A: Mm. [00:24:00] Speaker B: Here's what. Here's what I would call tough love. I accept that you have these feelings. I accept that you are developing a moral code that's different than mine. I love you no matter where you go or what you become, and you [00:24:30] Speaker A: would accept them into your family. [00:24:34] Speaker B: And here's the tough love part. I want you to understand that I have a different code. It doesn't mean I don't love you. It doesn't mean that you're not welcome. It just means this is a route in life that you're going. But you need to understand that I'm on a pathway through life. Also. I love you. I have room in my life for you. You will always have place in my life. I can accept what's going on in your life, but I'm living by a different code. [00:25:13] Speaker A: And I think it's hard for a lot of parents because it's fine when the child's single, but then it becomes harder when a wedding's involved or you're bringing somebody home to meet them. And. And I think there's a paradox of how do you honor God and how do you have a different moral code? And I think the. The beauty of who Jesus Christ is is one of his greatest commands was that he left is by this, all people will know that you are my disciple, that you have love for one another, and you can have a different way of life and still be radically loved. [00:26:05] Speaker B: So we have. We have to walk a very straight line. It's easier on both sides. It's easier to say, this is sin. God won't bless you and that whole hard line. Or it's easier on the other side to say, well, nothing is really wrong. God doesn't care one way or another. And both of those are wrong, and they're not loving. The loving thing to do is to say, this is A challenge. This is a difficult challenge issue. But we have a great love and we have a love that won't let us fall in the ditch on either side. We have a love that if what you hear from me disappoints me. Disappoints you. I believe you have a love big enough to deal with that disappointment. If what I hear from you disappoints me, I have a love that is strong enough to deal with that disappointment. All right. The love of Christ compels us. Paul says. Mercy triumphs over justice. We have to have. If I have received the incomprehensible love of God, I am obligated to share something of that incomprehensible love with the people around me. [00:28:01] Speaker A: And it's self sacrificing. You know, that's the image here of like we can't understand the, the, the height, the depth, the breadth, the width. We can't understand it, The cost. [00:28:21] Speaker B: And, and Paul makes a big deal that this love has a empowering effect on our life. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:32] Speaker B: It makes us rooted. It makes us on a firm foundation. It gives us a stability in life. It strengthens us in our inner person. This love of Christ makes us solid people that we can't be without it. [00:28:52] Speaker A: I remember a student had come to me years ago and was like, I'm just struggling with loving God. I'm so struggling with loving Him. I don't, I want to, I want to do it better. I just, I'm struggling with it. And I gave him a piece of advice you had given me in one of our conversations. And it was our starting point isn't how much we love God, it's how much he loves us. Because when you understand at the core that you are loved and seen and called and there is a purpose to your life by God, the one and only God, there is an inner strength, there is an inner well being, there is an empowerment. But I think even for us to understand the love of God, it's through God himself working. [00:29:45] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:29:46] Speaker A: Can you talk to me about that? [00:29:48] Speaker B: Well, I'm not going to remember the reference, but it says the love of God is poured out into our hearts. Isn't that a beautiful idea? My heart is a passive receptacle. And God, out of his loving initiative, takes the initiative to pour out his love into us. He goes beyond pouring out. He fills us with his spirit. [00:30:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:28] Speaker B: It's not that he just stands over here and loves me. He comes to abide with me and loves me in the inner innerness of my Psyche, my soul. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's. He's not shouting from heaven. Yeah, yeah. I was listening to a sermon this morning on the prodigal son. And they often called him the older brother. And you get two images of two very different kids. One is probably a little bit more like how I was growing up. I was. I was. I just kind of went my own way a bit. I always loved God. I valued him, but I. I didn't know him. I didn't know him. And so this younger brother goes and he takes the inheritance and he lives wildly, whatever that means, and then comes home because there's nothing left. And he's desperate and he's hungry. And you get this image from Scripture of this dad sitting on the porch and looking. It's like you get this sense that he's looking down the road because he knows his son's coming back one day. And then you get. This image of him running to his son when he rounds the corner and getting the robe and the shoes and the ring. And you get this sense that the community had a lot of thoughts about this boy. But the dad puts the robe around him, the dad puts the ring on him, and he's saying, I don't care what you think. He is mine. And then at the end of the story, you get this image of. We call him the older brother, but the Bible doesn't first acknowledge him as the older brother. He calls him the older son. And he's done everything with his dad. He never left. He stayed. He's worked hard. He's even working when he hears the music of the party playing. And you get this image of him talking to his dad and saying, what's going on? And his dad said, your brother's home. Come. Come to the party. The music's playing. And you get two separate pictures because this older son is upset, because he's always done the right thing, but he's missed the love of his dad the whole time. The younger brother hasn't done the right thing. And now he's feeling the depth of his dad's love in his worst decision making. And you get this. Two sides of a coin, of a God who loves you. And I think God, Jesus so purposefully told that story because we're typically on one side or the other. You're typically the rule follower or the rule breaker. There's a love of a father that covers the love of the father that says, you're mine. There's also a love that says, let me love you. What would you say to the People that have a hard time letting God love them. Come, the music's playing, the party's going, the calf is cooked. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Yeah. How about something as simple as. Test God? He says, draw near to me, and I will draw near to you. Open up your inner self to him. Say to him, I ask in the name of Jesus Christ for you to give me an awareness of your love here in his love. Not that we loved God, but that he loved us. Ah. So I would say be open. It's hard to hug somebody who's got their hands out pushing you away. Yeah. You've heard me say this. The human soul is a natural receptor for the presence of God. If you will just stop tuning him out, your soul will naturally tune him in. Just sit quietly and call upon the name of the Lord. Be still and know that I am God. Let God draw near to you. Understand what your worship language is. And perhaps you need to listen to some music because you're gonna sense God in the music. Or perhaps you need to sit out in nature in a quiet spot. But you will feel the love of God. It's undeniable. Yeah. [00:36:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I love the idea of asking. On that podcast that I was telling you about with John Lennox and the diary of a CEO, he said that. He said, Tell me, Mr. Lennox, why should I believe? I like, how would you convince me? And John Lennox said, you know, I can tell you that there's a beautiful red Porsche sitting outside, and we could talk about it and debate about it and tell the facts about the car, but until you go and see it for yourself, you'll never really know. And so I love this idea of just asking, just opening your heart and asking, will you show me your love? I think. I think there is a beautiful honesty and rawness about that, that anyone, at any point, at any time, no matter where you are, spiritually, emotionally, physically, God is accessible. Well, thank you for this conversation. [00:37:06] Speaker B: Thank you. I enjoyed it. [00:37:07] Speaker A: I treasure you. I love you. Thanks for who you are. [00:37:11] Speaker B: You do a good job. [00:37:12] Speaker A: I hope you have a good day. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:37:14] Speaker A: We hope you have a good day, and we pray that God blesses you richly and that you will experience him and his relationship for yourself.