Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hey, welcome back to Grow Tential. I'm Sarah and I'm with my dad, Doc. How you doing?
[00:00:09] Speaker B: I'm doing good.
[00:00:11] Speaker A: We just popped a podcast out and we're gonna go back to back on this one. You ready?
[00:00:15] Speaker B: I'm all ready.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: I appreciate these conversations so much, so I pray that these are of deep value for you. I thank you to everyone who tells us or sends us an email. We appreciate, appreciate hearing from you and what it means. So shoot us a line, give us a. Let us know what if these have been helpful or not.
We are father daughter. This is probably one of my favorite things we do together.
You have been a mentor for well over 20 years in my life, and it's just a deep blessing.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: I enjoy it also, my dear, someone
[00:00:51] Speaker A: came up to me yesterday. They said, does your dad just love doing this with you? I said, well, he doesn't always love the vulnerability part, but I think he likes doing it with me. I say you do it for me, not. Not just.
What do you think?
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I wouldn't do it without you.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: Oh. We've got some new things cooking in the kitchen, though. So for some people who are interested in reading scripture together, we're going to be doing some more stuff podcast style to help tell the story of the Bible, to help us understand each book of the Bible a little bit better. So that'll be separate from grocer potential, but I'm excited about that. And as we do, we got some
[00:01:29] Speaker B: marriage stuff coming up, don't we?
[00:01:31] Speaker A: Yeah, we sure do. Relationship, really?
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Relationship.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: It's not just marriage. It's family, friends, relationship, focus. So I think that'll be really helpful too.
Okay, if you could pick the favorite part of your job, what would you say it was?
[00:01:50] Speaker B: I would say I get more time to study the scriptures, read theology.
I have opportunities to mentor people and talk about God in meaningful ways. That's what I like the most.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. Most people don't know, but you've stepped out a lot of the, like, day to day that you used to handle, and so now you are very heavy on mentoring and leading. Do you like that change?
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I do.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Good.
Did you just say that was your favorite part of your job right now?
[00:02:33] Speaker B: WhatsApp?
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Being able to study more and teaching. Good, good. That makes me really happy.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah. So for many years I had to manage the budget and lead the staff, and that stuff is so time consuming.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: It is, yeah.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: And it cut into the spiritual aspect that I.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: And it's more doable when you're A smaller church, but as you grow, the more undoable. You can't. You can't do it all.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: No.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: So good.
Okay. Well, we were in a very fascinating conversation about just how the unease of this world can, I don't know, make you feel uneasy.
The. The lack of control when there's a war going on and so many people are talking about end times on.
Actually, I've heard. Heard sermons on it, and it's.
So I thought it would be interesting to hear from you.
And so if you didn't hear last month's podcast, I highly recommend going back and listening to it because.
Very fascinating, very interesting.
But your whole take on it is.
Is what?
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Blessed is the servant. When his master comes, he finds him doing.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Don't get distracted.
No one knows the time or the hour that the Father's fixed on his own authority.
You will receive power. When the Holy Spirit comes upon, you will be my witnesses.
That's our. That's our mission.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
So my whole life you have taught us to run towards the problem and to be a part of the solution.
And so that's how I grew up. That's how I've led. That's everything I've seen you and mom do.
Tell me, where did that philosophy come from for you?
[00:04:32] Speaker B: I'm not really sure, Sarah.
I probably read it in a book somewhere that I can't remember and cite the reference, but it's in our original deacon and elder lessons that I wrote 30 years ago.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
So when you think about this idea of being part of the solution, not a part of the problem, I might say that backwards.
As we were talking about, I was like, so tell me more about being part of the problem as it comes. Easy for me.
But when you think about this, dad, and problems are everywhere. Some are big, some are small, some are life changing.
What has it meant to you? Like what. What do you think the character it takes.
What's. What's that character trait? What do you think it is?
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Ah, well, I believe ultimately we all end up doing what we are.
So I'm going to end up responding
[00:05:50] Speaker A: from
[00:05:52] Speaker B: my habits of thinking, my habits of desiring, and my habits of choice.
And if I want to respond better in the moment, then I have to develop those habits up front because they're going to express themselves in the moment.
If I haven't developed them, they're not going to express themselves in the moment.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: I think it's so easy to see.
We.
Like. I want the courage and the strength that you have.
It's something as A mentor of mine that it's just meant the world. I love it. You have a disposition in hard times to make people feel safe and like we can do it. And I want that same kind of disposition.
And so it's fascinating because what it takes to get that disposition is what no one sees. What it takes to seek God and trust him and understand in the kind of way we talked.
Did we ever air the one on priming where you're priming? I think we did because that was an extremely fascinating conversation where you, how you show up is going to determine the outcome. And so how we show up privately and personally for ourselves is going to determine who we are at the end of the day. So what does that look like for you to develop that skill of, let's say, strength and courage?
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Okay. I have, I have some techniques I can share.
The first one is going to start. Sound like a broken record, but it's just the truth.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Okay.
I want to start my day with God.
Not just once in a while, but day after day after day.
I want my first interactions to be with God.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Okay, so what does that look like on your day to day basis at home?
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Well, it looks like prayer and Bible reading.
[00:08:06] Speaker A: Do you do that in your sunroom, on your comfy chair at your dining room table? Where do you do that?
[00:08:13] Speaker B: I do it on the chair that's got all the books stacked up around it.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: That's in the sunroom?
[00:08:18] Speaker B: No, it's a recliner.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: So if you look there, there's the night. I mean the lamp tables, you have books stacked everywhere.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: If no one's seen this man's library, it is impressive.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: All right, guilty as charged. Okay.
And often, even before I get out of bed, you know, you wake up
[00:08:39] Speaker A: at already starting the conversation, 4 o'
[00:08:40] Speaker B: clock in the morning and you can't get up. And so I will tell myself stories about Jesus.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: I think they call that old people stuff.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: I can't go back to bed just awake.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: I'll tell myself stories from the Gospels and I will say stuff like to God, I'd like to have conversation about you and I, not about work, not about this problem and that problem.
I'll say stuff like I want to draw near to you.
I'll sometimes say I don't really have any requests this morning other than I would just like to hang around in your presence for a few minutes.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: I. Quite a few years ago I started waking up and the first thought on my mind would be praising God.
And I don't give myself a Lot of credit about things, but that is something that I am. I love so much. And I think it's the Holy Spirit obviously guiding my thoughts, but it is.
I just want to tell him I love him absolutely. How worthy he is.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: And I just. It is.
I never want to lose that.
Or you wake up and your first thought is him and how much you love him. I love you. In one of our podcasts, you talk to us about the soul being a receptor for Christ. And it stuck with me as we are hardwired, we are physically hardwired to be in relationship with him.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Yes, we are.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: To feel for him, to sense him, to call for him.
And I love that.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: If.
If. Draw near to me and I will draw near to you.
Is that beautiful?
[00:10:41] Speaker A: It's. It's just so fascinating. The more you read the Bible, the more you know the story of the Bible.
I used to feel bad for the people, and I'm mad at myself for even thinking that way.
When I was a little girl, I would be like, these poor people. And the older I get, I'm like, these.
Be God is saying, I am your God. Just be my people. I am your God.
Put all the other stuff away. Let me be your God. And it's over. And it's over. And it's over. And then out of the richness of his mercy and the beauty of his grace, he sent his son. Like, it's. The story of the Bible is so compelling.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: He endured the cross, despising the shame. He despised the shame.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: I think there's this, like, we.
When we really just sit with a God who is like this, a God of such deep love, it's been captivating my soul over and over and over that Jesus would say, just obey my commands. Obey my commands. And then you know what his command was? To love one another the way that he loved us. It's.
It's. If you are not a Christian and you are learning from anything outside of the Bible, like, if you really knew who Christ was. It's so compelling. It's so beautiful. It's not political. It's not left or right or. It's just. He is so much bigger than it all, and it's so compelling. Dad.
[00:12:20] Speaker B: Yeah. He's altogether lovely.
Any way you look at him.
Look at him from any direction, and he's lovely.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: We've misrepresented him terribly and caused people to misunderstand him.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Does that feel like such a weight of your heart? Of, like, I never want to misrepresent.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.
See, that's what I think Taking the Lord's name in vain is. You misrepresent him.
You talk about him a way that leaves people feeling empty about him.
All right, Siri. So I also have a technique. Sometimes it's harder than other times.
Sometimes it's easy for me to keep my mind in the right place, and then other times it's almost impossible.
So I have, over the years, gotten these little notebooks, and I fill them with scriptures and theology quotes.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: So when I need help, I'll just put one of those booklets in my pocket, and throughout the day, I'll just break it out.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yeah. You've given me one of yours, so I have one of yours.
If you don't remember, I don't remember. I have one of them. And I value that little notebook.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: So it's a technique that sometimes I have to have help.
And I can't carry my Bible through the whole day, but I can carry that little notebook.
And I can.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: I love that. I think we did a podcast, like, we filmed three times or something, and they all fell through. And just, like, there wasn't sound. We just had technical issues. And so I was like, chet, I can't bear to ask my dad to come in one more time. Can you film with me? And he.
I think it was happiness or joy or something, because Chet has such a joyful attitude about.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: We like Chet.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: And he just pulled out a cue card that was in his pocket, and it was the same idea. It was just a verse that he felt like God had given to him, and he was just carrying it around.
I have a chalkboard at home, and it's. You can see it from just about everywhere. And so I always try to write a verse on it that is something I'm trying to memorize or think about or pull one word or one idea out of. But when I think about trying to be part of the solution, I think if people are honest, that's what they would want.
But it's harder in those moments when things are heated or when you're feeling insecure or you're feeling tired or overwhelmed as a parent or your margin has been tapped into already.
What would your advice be to someone who's feeling a little. A little worn out, a little burnout, and we're talking about, okay, go be part of the solution. And they're like, I just, you know,
[00:15:30] Speaker B: I'm hesitant to talk about what I believe about burnout.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: Well, let's say it, because it might be a fascinating conversation.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: So.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: And you are hardwired, different than a lot of people I know. So we'll just set the scene for that.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: God doesn't burn out his people.
God doesn't drive us to the point of burnout.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Burnout is not something that happens because God pushed me too far.
Burnout doesn't happen because I'm serving God in the way he wants to be served.
A burnout is telling me I'm not getting this right somewhere or you're carrying
[00:16:24] Speaker A: things you have no business carrying.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: It's not part of your calling.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: Right.
Burnout is.
Burnout is not a medal of honor.
I killed myself serving Jesus Christ. That's a myth.
Because the Bible is full of saying to strengthen yourself in the Lord and grow strong in the strength of his might.
So the Bible is saying there is a strength available to us that is greater than our own strength.
And if I have burnout, it's because I'm not tapping in to the. The strength.
I'm running on my own.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: I just did a retreat for women's ministry, and my talk was on the weight that we carry. And it was this exact thing of, like, we often are feeling this way because we are carrying stuff we have no business carrying.
But then looking at that First Corinthians passage, the weight of eternal glory, like, there is weight we should carry and there is hard work to be done in this world.
But what has eternal value? You know, what is the stuff that at the end of the day, no one else can do except you?
And what is the other stuff you have to put down?
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Because I do believe there are seasons of life that kind of cut you off at the knees. Like something happens with your kids or you lose someone you love. Like, I believe there are seasons where you do feel overwhelmed and you don't have much margin left. So let's speak into that if. If you're feeling that.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: Okay. I. I have. I mean, back in the day when we're just trying to get over some humps. I've worked 60 hour weeks. I know what it's like to work a 60 hour.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: People think I work one day a week.
I'm glad when I get one day a week off.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, you're a preacher. What else do you do?
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: So I.
I have practiced mini breaks.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:45] Speaker B: And I'll be between meetings and I'll just walk up and down Main street or I'll walk and look out the back window.
Nature has a way of refreshing. I'm.
I get good vibes Anyway, so because I can't take the whole afternoon off doesn't mean I can't have three mini breaks in there.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm bad at mini breaks. Terrible.
I'm like a slave driver to myself of just, like, there's no breaks. There's.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: I often don't eat lunch. I'm like, just go until the work's done. And then like, oh, I'm starving.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: My problem is when I drive myself too hard, there used to be these airplanes that had a propeller and it had a rubber band, and you would turn the propeller to the rubber band, got wound tight, and you'd throw it and fly. Well, I got that rubber band in me.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: And if I. If I keep pushing and pushing, that rubber band gets wound tighter and tighter.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I said the more I'm doing the thing, like, leading the staff and the things I was like, the more I'm starting to understand you.
I think that rubber band started to grow inside of me. Yeah.
But I do appreciate the idea of mini breaks. Do you have things on your calendar that you look forward to?
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: Is there, like, seasons or monthly or weekly? Like, what does that look like for you?
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Daily?
I want to have lunch with Shay every single day.
I don't.
I work real hard, Jacob.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: Do you hear that?
[00:20:28] Speaker B: Not for us not to miss lunch together.
In the past.
I wasn't diligent enough on that.
But we're at a point in our life where we eat lunch together once in a while. We can't, but. And then I tried to take one of you girls out for lunch. All right.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: And I'm always like, you have this. I can't.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: The second is Shay and I try to do many adventures.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Like a month ago, we're listening to a biography of Grant in the truck, and we listened to the biography of Grant. We drove over to Madison. We had lunch at a little winery there.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: And so I look forward to that.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: We hold hands.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: All right. All right.
Many of you don't know this. My dad's very inappropriate with my mom.
His love for her is very clear.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: It's appropriate attraction to a woman who is so stunning.
I blame it on her.
I also want.
I have times in my life, I think you've heard me say this, where I do saturation Bible reading.
I don't read anything else.
Every minute of reading time I have, I'm doing saturating Bible reading. I'm trying to saturate myself again.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: You were in, I think it was the ordination class.
You were saying that you have felt this tug to read more and more theology and read more and more Bible. And when you were saying that, I was thinking to myself, you already read so much. So does that mean you don't really read other things right now, or is it primarily in the past?
[00:22:42] Speaker B: I would. I used to read about five books at a time because if this one doesn't interest me, I put it down. Okay.
So I have a shelf of books that I bought to read, and I haven't gone to that shelf.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: I.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: This year.
For recreation, I'm reading all the Perot novels. Just recreation.
And I haven't done that for two months.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: The Perot.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Agatha Christie wrote these mystery novels and the detective was Hercule Perrault.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: Okay. I know Misty and Katie are big Agatha Christie's. My sisters love Agatha Christie. Okay, so we're being part of the solution. We're feeling tired or overwhelmed or burnt out. And so some of that is indicators to say, are there the wrong things in my life? Can I set some of this down? What are the things that only I can do, using them as signals.
And now like.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: And refreshing myself in the Lord.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Right.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: When David. Starting your day, David at Z, that was as burnt out as you can get. People are gonna stone him. And he encouraged himself in the Lord.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Yeah. What is your way of encouraging yourself in the Lord when you're discouraged?
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Well, this saturation Bible reading, often it is rethinking how I'm doing what I'm doing.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah. I think mine is like a perspective shift.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: It's always a perspective shift with God.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: The second I can sit alone with him and think through some things and worship and praise him and read through scripture, it is.
I will hear from him.
I'll get the reset, I'll get the shift. And I think that's something I value and you so much, is that you are part of the solution. Now listen, you are an ornery dad. You were a. You were a fire starter. You were. You would cause troubles, but the fun kind.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: Good.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: But I. But you. There is a sense of well being and peace. And a while ago, I remember walking into your office and there was a problem.
And I. I can't remember the nature of it. I wish I did, but I remember saying, do we need to do, you know, A, B or C? And you said, well, let's. Let's just spend the night talking to God and let's ask him.
And then he said something like, if the problem arises, we'll deal with it when it arises, but let's Seek God right now. And I go to that time and time again of, is the problem actually here, or am I creating a fictional problem in my head?
But we can deal with it when it comes.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Right. I don't have to.
I don't have to borrow trouble.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
All right. If you were telling your kids one way to be part of the solution and not the problem, what would your advice be?
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Okay, how about have a healthy attitude, bring solutions.
Sarah, there are people who think they're smart because they can. What if every solution.
They never offer a solution, but they will. What if every solution to death.
So I have this image. I've used it with the elder several times.
Don't wipe anything off the table unless you're gonna put something back on.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: I remember being young and hearing that from you.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: Do not wipe a solution off the table unless you're gonna offer another one.
So having this healthy attitude, being a person of faith, I. In every problem, I expect God to bless me.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: I don't go again starting with the goodness of God and not.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: I don't go into the problem saying, the Lord's going to dump me on this.
I go in saying, God, does it work in some way? I just have to see it.
I would also say, learn from my mistake.
And you can be a bulldozer, problem solver, which I have been too often, or you can be a gentle problem solver.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: Define what do you mean?
[00:27:42] Speaker B: So.
A bulldozer, problem solver, they're going to solve problems, and they're probably going to solve them more quickly than others would have.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: Yeah. But solve them, move on. Solve them, move on.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: There's going to be repercussions, track marks. There's going to be hurt feelings.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: So a more gentle problem solver says, okay, instead of saying, this is a problem, we're going to do this, this, and this, which is my first impulse, I want to start saying, what do you sense is wrong?
And what do you sense is our best way of dealing with it? All right.
It doesn't change that. I think I know.
But it invites them in in a way that they don't feel bulldozed by me.
Do you know what I mean? And I'm trying to get better than that. I mean, get better than that. I'm trying to ask a question, or I'm trying to say, what do you think?
Or sometimes I'll even say, you know, this is your call. Whatever is good with you is good with me.
Okay. I'm Part of the problem, I'm problem solving there.
Because then if they say, well, I'm not sure, or whatever, I'm just problem solving in a more healthy and even mentoring way.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: Well, you know, what's cool is you get small moments of wins in that.
Like, I realized at my house, it's not always just these big giant moments. It's these small moments.
And now my kids and I, we are best friends. Everyone comes over on Friday, and Friday it was nice out, so we had a fire and the guys opened the pool so it was 40 degrees and they could cold plunge in the pool. And we had the hot tub.
But it was a fun night. But we had a couple of young guys there who are from the church who are going through hard times.
And at one point, the young man looked at me and he said, what does it feel like to be the house that people want to come to, to heal?
And I thought to myself, well, that feels like a blessing from God.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: But it also made me realize it's those small little moments that to be aware.
To be aware in the conversation that maybe you have more to offer than you're even knowing or you're. You're not truly engaged or listening. And. And it's like, well, no, those little moments are adding up for something bigger, you know, And I think that's part of being part of this problem solver, you know, is being aware.
Not just in the big moments, but it's everyday interactions.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you just made an awesome connection.
There's problem solving that doesn't heal, but there's problem solving that does heal, right?
[00:31:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: I can get through a problem and not heal anybody or that problem can be the source of God doing something new, beautiful, and healing in a person.
[00:31:20] Speaker A: And isn't it everything we believe that
[00:31:22] Speaker B: is everything we believe that is.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: That's the power of who he is.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:27] Speaker A: All right, Well, I love you. Thank you so much for this conversation.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: I love you.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: I hope you have the best day.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: I'm going to.
[00:31:33] Speaker A: Good. Yeah, me too. I'm going to prime my day for something great. Because the favor of God is on me. He is good.
And it is on you, my friends. I hope you have the best day. If you enjoy this, we'd love for you to share it with someone. Give us a like. Give us a follow. God bless you.
