Relationships Part 1

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hey, welcome back, everybody, to the Grow Tension podcast. I'm Sarah, and I'm with my dad, doc, how you doing? [00:00:10] Speaker B: I'm doing great. [00:00:12] Speaker A: We are so excited to be with you, because as we learn and grow, we want to share the good ideas that we're learning with you so that you can grow along with us. Today, we are going to be talking about relationships. Recently, my husband and I, Jake, we did a sermon on relationships. [00:00:30] Speaker B: A remarkable sermon. [00:00:31] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:00:32] Speaker B: A very remarkable sermon. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Thank you. We were very vulnerable. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Yes, you were. [00:00:37] Speaker A: But God has been so incredibly good, and we wanted to share his faithfulness. When we were trying our hardest to get it wrong, and I was just. With the feedback and stuff, I thought it would be a great time to go in a little bit deeper into relationships. I've only been married over 20 years, but I am with you. Who is going on, what will this be, 52 years? [00:00:59] Speaker B: This year? [00:01:00] Speaker A: Yes, it will be 52 years. You're too young for that. [00:01:04] Speaker B: I've been torturing your mother for 51 years. [00:01:09] Speaker A: So we're gonna go to. We're gonna get the big guns out today, and we are gonna learn a thing or two, but we are gonna be using a helpful book. You wanna tell them about it? [00:01:19] Speaker B: Yes. Years ago, I wanna do a sermon series on relationships, and I read John Gottman's book on the seven secrets for. [00:01:32] Speaker A: Making a marriage work. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Making a marriage work. And I was profoundly influenced by that. Sharon and I, for a long time in our life, every year, we did a marriage book. And so I not only preached, used that for the sermon series, Shay and I did it as our marriage book that year. [00:01:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So just for everyone listening, it's called the seven principles of making a marriage work by doctor John Gottman. And in fact, that's one of mine and Jacob's go to books. So it's been very influential in our lives, too. I love, though, when we were talking about relationships before the podcast started, we were talking about, really, at the core of relationships is friendships. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? [00:02:25] Speaker B: Really? Spouses at their very best, they're best friends. And in all healthy relationships, I'm not just talking about spouses. I'm talking about work relationships, friendships. At the core of relating in a healthy way to other people is friendship. And it turns out friendship is not a mystery. There are identifiable qualities to it that if we pay attention to those qualities, we have a much healthier relationship. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And so one of the first ones that Gottman does in his book is this idea of growing a love map. And so the main idea of this is that you grow your awareness for your partner. What they like, what they don't like, things that make them tick a little bit. So when you think about your relationship with mom, how have you grown your love maps or keep that fresh throughout the decades? [00:03:37] Speaker B: Well, so if I break this into three sections, I can explain it best. The first part of our life, I was an idiot and didn't understand relationships at all. And I took things for granted and I said things I wish I wouldn't. [00:04:00] Speaker A: Have said as I think all of us. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Then I got into the second phase of our relationship and obviously what I was doing wasn't working. Shay wasn't happy and I wasn't happy. And we. We lost the. We lost the mystery of each other. [00:04:26] Speaker A: Yeah. From like the day to day busyness of life. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:30] Speaker B: And I. I didn't. I couldn't live with it. [00:04:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:35] Speaker B: So that's when I started reading marriage books myself. And that's when Sharon and I started doing marriage books together. We'd read a chapter and talk about it. And then this last phase of our relationship, I feel like it's now the way it was when we were young at our very best. Except it's better because we know how to treat each other differently. And it's hard to articulate, but it's a more personal love and appreciation for each other. [00:05:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I can just like growing up with you guys. I can see that. I can see the ease at which you guys exist with each other now. And it's beautiful. And I think a lot of us want to get there. A lot of us want to be there. And I like how you said you couldn't live with it. Could you just talk to our male audience for a second? Maybe their marriage is just kind of been in a rut, or maybe they're not married, but they're dating and it's just not going the way they want it to go. What would you say to the male audience listening? [00:06:06] Speaker B: I believe I'm supposed to be the spiritual leader of my hall. My wife has every right to expect me to be the spiritual leader of my hall. Being the spiritual leader doesn't mean I am the spiritual dictator. [00:06:22] Speaker A: That's right. [00:06:23] Speaker B: What it means is I take a responsibility to initiate. If this is a mistake I made when I was young, when things didn't go well, I would back off. And it was kind of like, you're not treating me right. I'm going to ignore you. [00:06:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm going to be silent. Treatment. Yeah, I know that one pretty well. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Or I would speak unpleasantly. All right. But I understood that if our marriage was going to change, I needed to initiate. So I started buying books. I suggested we do these books together. I went to counseling for five years. So I would say to the brothers, if you're waiting around for somebody else to fix this, you're not living up to your potential and your responsibility as the spiritual leader of your home and. [00:07:41] Speaker A: Go and take the initiative. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Take the initiative. [00:07:44] Speaker A: I love that. I think when I think about the women kind of in this setting is I feel a little bit the same way you do. I feel like you taught me long ago that there's got to be a champion in the relationship. There's got to be a hero in the relationship. And so even if maybe your spouse or whoever you're in a relationship isn't initiating, maybe you step in then and initiate. Because I think when you have two people who are willing to try, willing to initiate, then something really beautiful happens. And I could almost hear listeners saying, well, I try and they aren't listening, or they aren't. They aren't initiating. They aren't receiving what I'm trying to give. And I think for women, sometimes we can come across. I know personally for myself, I can come across harsh. And so there's a harshness about me, but really, at the end of the day, it's because my feelings were hurt, and I think. So when I think you ask brothers to initiate, I asked the sisters, come on, women, that we start with a softer edge, that we show a little bit more grace. And I believe that God blesses you in that, that he shows favor in that. And even if I can't control how my spouse is going to respond, I still want to show up and be the girl that God's created me to be. [00:09:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I learned somewhere this image that relationships are like a dance. And if you do the same dance moves over and over again, nothing ever changes. Okay. But if just one spouse changes their dance moves, it requires the other spouse to dance differently, too. So in relationships, I've heard people say to me, oh, they're never going to do this. They're never going to do that. And I say, if you dance the right steps, it creates an altogether different relationship. And it's hard to keep doing the same old things when somebody is doing things differently. [00:10:00] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. So I think of this enhancing the love map. It's the idea of you're growing your mind more towards your spouse. You're getting to know them in all the different phases. How would you say you and mom go about this in just like a natural way? Or is it. Does it feel natural to you? [00:10:20] Speaker B: So the. The concept of love map is. I like the idea, but the label on it is a bit odd to me. So I don't think of as a lubnap. I think of as I want to understand what life looks like for Shay when it's at the very best. [00:10:44] Speaker A: I love that. [00:10:46] Speaker B: I want to be able to say, life is at its very best. When Shea and I go to the lake, we sit by the lake, we talk about things that are important to us. Life is at its very best when Shay and I are having a big lunch with our family and Shay's talking to the kids and the grandkids. Our life is at its very best when we hold hands and pray. So instead of the concept of the love map, I like to think of when do I see Shay experiencing life at the very best, and what can I do to foster, to facilitate more of that? [00:11:38] Speaker A: I like that. So when I think about Jacob and I, I think there's. We've learned a lot about each other. And it's. It's not. I think sometimes you think in relationships, it's the big things. It's the vacations or it's the wedding day or, you know, there's all these things that you can be like, well, I'm just gonna get there and then it's gonna be good. But really, it's the day to day life. [00:12:00] Speaker B: Yes, it is. [00:12:01] Speaker A: It's the little things every single day that kind of add up and make your relationship what it is. And so Jacob and I had to learn each other a little bit in the rhythm of. I understand now that when he gets home from work, he's. He needs some downtime. I didn't understand that for a long time, and I would always take it personally. But now that I know that's just how he's hardwired. He's got to unwind a little bit. It's not personal. It's when Jake walks in, he gets 20 minutes or whatever time he needs so that he can unwind. In the same way, I can be a little bit extra needy when I'm doing some hard stuff at church or work or whatever it might be. And I need just his company by me. And he has learned that about me. He actually is the one who pointed that out. I didn't even realize it, but. But he was watching. [00:12:53] Speaker B: He was reading the love map. [00:12:55] Speaker A: That's exactly right. And so I think part of this is, what is the day to day stuff that you can do to. I like how you say it. To really make life its best for your partner. Now we're gonna have off days. There's gonna be rhythms where that doesn't work as good as we want it to. But I think for the most part, when you really put that lens on, something really good and healthy happens. [00:13:23] Speaker B: I believe that. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Okay, so the second principle that he talks about is this idea of nurturing fondness and admiration. We both, I'm sure you and mom have worked way more than Jacob and I have with other couples, but excuse me. [00:13:38] Speaker B: Bless you. [00:13:40] Speaker A: When we mentor other couples, or even for ourselves, you can see. See a discrepancy sometimes in how you think about each other. And we will have people that have grown far apart because they don't think well of each other. So when you think about this idea of growing, your fondness and admiration, tell me what that's looked like in your life. [00:14:10] Speaker B: It's important how you permit yourself. How I permit myself to think about Shay. Because my life is going to follow my thoughts. [00:14:24] Speaker A: That's right. [00:14:25] Speaker B: And if I'm permitting myself to think unpleasant stuff, then I'm going to end up treating her that way. On the other hand, if I say to myself, I do not permit you to think about Shay that way, and I insist on saying, I know she loves God, I know she has a mercy gift. I know she is helpful to hundreds of people. I know she's forgiven me for a million things. And I turn toward what I know is best about her. Then even subconsciously, I find myself saying to her, hey, thank you for doing this. I appreciate that you said this. And my expressions toward her are going to be fond and affectionate because it's the way I'm thinking about her. [00:15:36] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. I like how you say you go in the direction of your thoughts, because that's a hundred percent true. And so are you thinking the best about your partner or are you thinking about all their flaws all day? I think I got into a bad habit of this, of like, oh, he never, or he always, or. And I think never and always are those key words. Like, when you start talking in that way, you know you're going down the wrong direction. But I think for me, I will try to make it habits of giving him the benefit of the doubt. And I think to nurture your fondness and admiration. I think it's exactly what you're saying is speaking it out loud too, or shooting a text message. Jake will be really good at this. He'll shoot me a text message. He just did the other day, and it was like, I'm so in love with you. And that's. I just received that in the middle of the day. And can I tell you, that goes a long way. That goes a long way. So when you think about little tips and Lexi just picked up her phone to text to her husband right now. So I've also texted Jake stuff. I can't say. [00:16:56] Speaker B: We'Ll let you pass. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Okay. So. But listen, I think when you think about how do you nurture this fondness and admiration? What are some things that you've done for mom in that arena? [00:17:10] Speaker B: I bought a book. I think it was called 1001 romantic ideas. I was looking for it for this podcast because I wanted to share some of them. So, look, I'm not the most sensitive guy in the world, and I'm certainly not Don Juan. I'm not the most romantic guy in the world, but you give me a good idea, and I can run with it. [00:17:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:36] Speaker B: And so I went through several years where at least once a month I would take one of those ideas and I would do it. Men might relate to this, too. Then part of showing fondness is checking my sarcasm. She says to me, did you, do you have the debit card? And I say, no, I gave it to a beggar beside the street. [00:18:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:19] Speaker B: Okay. I think I'm being funny. [00:18:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:24] Speaker B: And that doesn't come off to her as fond at all. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I heard there is. In every sarcasm, there's a bit of truth. [00:18:34] Speaker B: So I want to check that. I mean, I want to work on the positive side, but I also want. I also want to check the. Because I think this is funny. It may be funny at her expense, and that's not fair. [00:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:56] Speaker B: And it doesn't feel. It doesn't feel like fondness to her. [00:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's great. I also think Jacob said something in the sermon that I knew to be true, but when he said it just hit me in a fresh way, he said, if Sarah believes in me, there's nothing I can't do. And so I am going to take that to heart, and I am going to, as much as I can, try to build him up. So, women, I think it's important that you. You think have, and you. You pay attention to what your husband's trying to do. Are there hard things in his life? Are there hard meetings coming up or hard conversations? And how do you build them up in those moments and just let them know how much you believe in them, because I think it goes a lot longer and farther than. [00:19:49] Speaker B: I mean, I think that's one of Shay's core strengths. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:54] Speaker B: She has been very good at making me feel supported. She has been very diligent about encouraging. [00:20:10] Speaker A: She's. I say, no one loves me like my mom. I think she's. She will encourage, she will send me text message. She prays for me like no one else. She is something special. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Even when I preach a bad sermon. She said that was so good. [00:20:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Especially after a bit of time. [00:20:29] Speaker B: I'll take that. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah. There was a statistic in the book that I thought is worth mentioning, 94% of the time that couples who put a positive spin on their marriage's history or their partner's character are likely to have happier futures. That's a high percentage. [00:20:45] Speaker B: That's awesome. [00:20:46] Speaker A: So 94% of couples that have a positive spin. So, I mean, even if you have to fake it a little bit, fake it for the most part or sometimes so that you can get the results. 94% of the time. [00:20:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:00] Speaker A: That's huge. Okay, we have one more. And this idea is to turn towards each other instead of away from each other. Can you talk to us a little bit about this idea of bids? [00:21:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So John Gottman has this brilliant insight for people who don't know. He did research. They built an apartment and invited people to come to the apartment. [00:21:26] Speaker A: That's right. [00:21:27] Speaker B: And they did all this research, and he found through this research that people make bids to each other. And basically, it's something very simple, where in some way, you're reaching out to your spouse, it may be something as small as touching your hand. That's a bid. And now you turn toward that bed, or you turn away from it. If Sharon touches my hand and I pull my hand away, I've turned away from her bed. If she touches my hand and I squeeze her hand, I've turned toward her bed. [00:22:10] Speaker A: That's right. [00:22:12] Speaker B: If she says, I got a picture of the baby here on the cell phone, and I say, well, let me see it, I've turned toward her bid. [00:22:24] Speaker A: That was a fascinating part of the book that I didn't realize was what bids actually look like. If Jake's trying to have a conversation with me and I stay on my phone, if Jake's trying to tell me something about his day and I keep doing the dishes, or whatever it might be, I shouldn't have said, do the dishes. I rarely do the dishes. My kids are like, liar. But if I'm cleaning up the kitchen or whatever it might be. And I. So I think when people are making bids, it's sometimes even smaller than we think. And we realize. I think he used the example of, in the apartment, there was a man who was reading the paper and his wife was looking out at this boat, and as she was talking about it, he just continued to read the paper. And that gave me a fresh perspective too, of just being aware of with my children, with Jacob, with meetings that I'm in, I can be easily distracted. And I think that's one of the hardest things for my kiddos, is like eye contact, listening, engaging, and so simple stuff that we really, you can take. [00:23:31] Speaker B: For granted all the time. So when you say you can take for granted, I mean, that's really the key to relationships. We stop taking things for granted and we start paying attention. We start paying attention to what's going on in ourselves and what's going on in our spouses. We start saying, I recognize this works. I recognize this doesn't work. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. I think we are going to have a part two on relationships because I think we have a little bit more to say and we're already at 25 minutes. So I want to thank you so much for watching. We pray that this is a blessing. We pray that as you think about these principles, you invite God in to be a part of all that you're doing in your relationships. I had a friend call me this morning and she said her life's been just radically changed because they just started inviting God in. And I thought to myself, that's exactly right. When you invite God in, things start to change. If this has been helpful for you, please share. Please like and subscribe and we will be with you next time.